71 Responses to 806 – The Final Adventure • 005

  1. Drow use poison. Hes using a drow sword. Hes using poison. Hes not a paladin again.


    • Pfft. First of all, the whole “poison = evil” thing always drove me nuts. It may not be honorable, but a paladin can actually do *some* transgressing without falling. He only falls when he KNOWINGLY and willingly does an evil act, or changes his alignment away from LG, which usually takes more than one chaotic act.
      The whole “use the letter of the paladin codex, not the spirit of the paladin codex to put players in a straight jacket of alignment” drives me nuts too, because it leads straight to disgusting shit like the Gray Guard and Inquisitor prestige classes, because some game designer wanted to service the crowd of people who whine “Paladins are pussies, why isn’t my pally allowed to torture evil-does and people who piss him off and anyone with a chaotic alignment (they are all criminals anyway!) and be judge, jury and executioner, like that guy on 24?”

      Not to mention, the poison drow use is not actually a poison, it’s technically a non-lethal, anaesthetic drug, with no lasting after effects or side effects. Really, it’s the best medication you could ever invent! But because D&D worlds crawl with clerics who do all their healin’ with magic, and the D&D system has no game mechanic for non-poison drug and medical drugs, well they put it under “poisons”. Also, poison has to be specifically applies to blades. No every cannon-fodder drow has it. DUERGAR, now, duergar and derro use nasty poisons with attribute draining effects! Drow poison, pfft.

      Also, since when would be accidentally poisoning drow with their own poisoned blades be considered a more morally questionable act than HACKING THEM TO PIECES? Even in the Middle Ages, when crusader knights literally waded in blood, they knew deep down that “killing heathens to reclaim God’s holy land” was still technically murder, as in “thou shalt not kill”, which put them in a moral quandary, which they resolved by founding monasteries or handing over land to monasteries and paying monks to say all the proscribed penance prayers for their souls because they, being busy fighting or ruling their estates, had no time to do proper penance. No kidding. That’s how a ton of monasteries got founded and rose to financial power in the later Middle Ages.

      • I believe Drow poison was only used on thier crossbow bolts in the hand-crossbows. Was my understanding that it was rare and hard to make, and has a short lifespan when exposed to air, so making enough to coat a sword would be unlikely. Since thier swords are usually +5, poison would be sorta redundant anyway.

        • I have always, since like, high school, ignored the “poison is evil” rule, because it’s stupid. If your goal is kill everything you encounter and take their shit, using a sneaky weapon doesn’t really alter the moral landscape.

          • This isnt a question of poison is evil. its a question of an enemy that is evil using a tactic and you having good and right on your side and not needing the same tactic to win BECAUSE you have good and right on your side.

            I personally wouldn’t care much, but its a matter of honour for pallies and you know how they are about that kind of crap.

            Hacking and slashing isn’t an evil act because of the paladin code :smite makes right.

            If its dead and you smited it, it was evil and you are good. Welcome to the wonderful world of no greys only blacks and whites.

            • “because you have good and right on your side”

              What kind of bonus does this give me in game terms?

              • In game terms? It makes you a paladin. Hence the “code” they have had to follow since the game had paladins.

            • It’s not just about paladins using no poison. I have a DM who absolutely forbids ANY player character to use poison, ever. Even if it’s poison we found while killing and looting some derro or duergar. Even if the PC in question is a CN rogue. Nope.

              When I asked why the heck I couldn’t use this poison we found to, say, kill some other monster, he said “Using poison is always an evil act, period.”, and argued that
              1) poison is evil because poisoned food or a poisoned weapon could potentially kill an innocent person,
              2) poison is evil because it keeps on working after the first round and could kill someone even after the combat is over.
              3) Assassins use poison, and assassins are evil, therefore anyone using poison is evil.

              I’m afraid at this point I became a tiny bit sarcastic.

              I tried resorting to logic and pointed out that:
              a) I’m killing the monster/NPC dead anyway, that’s kinda the point of this whole “combat” exercise, does it really matter HOW?
              b) There are not many innocent bystanders around in a dungeon.
              c) I’m shooting this derro-poison-coated arrow at a drow. If I miss, do I hit a pixie fairy who magically popped into existance at that moment?
              d) Drow poison isn’t even lethal!!
              e) By his logic, the following things should also be clearly marked as evil acts:
              – A spellcaster casting an acid arrow, acid cloud or similar spells.
              – A wizard casting a “cloud kill” spell, an area spell which creates a cloud of poisonous fog.
              – A cleric or druid casting the “poison” spell, which infects the touched target with a horrible CON-draining deadly poison.
              – A cleric or druid casting a spell that curses someone with a horrible disease that is potentially infectious.
              – A druid turning into an animal that is poisonous and then biting or stinging someone.
              – A wizard owning a viper familiar, or a druid or ranger having a poisonous animal companion.
              – Throwing a fireball, which is an area spell that can set people and houses on fire. (Last I checked there’s still a difference between criminal negligence and being evil.)

              I agree that poisoning a well is an evil act, but usually we object to well-poisoning because it it KILLS people! [*] If my PC slaughters an entire orc village, that’s somehow permissible in the eyes of many players and DMs, but willfully poisoning the water supply of a fortress full of enemies whom I’m going to kill anyway so that the guards fall ill and my rogue can scale the walls undetected and sneak-attack them from behind or cut their throat while the sleep leads to an alignment change. Eh?

              [*] Historically it was also often claimed that well-poisoners were cowardly, which made this an especially heineous crime apparently in the eyes of the more “morally robust” warrior cultures riding in and mass-slaughtering women and children and old people was a-okay, but doing it behind someone’s back was evil.

              Really, though, the point was that EVERYONE, people and precious domestic animals alike, needs clean water, and poisoning a water supply of a village or –if you’re in a desert — the only oasis or well for hundreds of miles around made your Enemy #1 in the eyes of every person dependent on it. But you could make a water supply undinkable in many ways… use actual poison, salt, feces, corpses, diseased dead animals. The evil part was the act, not the method.

      • I haven’t bothered to keep track of the various rules changes, but at one time, poison applied to a blade would wear off quickly in combat.

        • I believe the poison would be pretty much gone from the blade after a couple of successfull hits.

      • Even if “poison is evil” came into play, Bunker would still have to know about it and as it seems he is just using the well known “hack and slash until everything around you has been hacked and slashed”- combat technique i’d say he don’t know.

  2. Wow, Bunker, are you actually fighting anyone or are you just busy posing for the camera? 😉

  3. Two things:

    Now bunker has got his powers back, it seems like he is going through a shopping list of all the different abilities that he has.

    Also, I assume that it is Zobbie (No shoulder pads) is fighting with her bare/bear hands hehehe. Careful, she may turn into a furry at this rate.

    Hmm, have I made that bear hands joke here before?

  4. Hush up, Enkidu. ^^ I’m glad for Bunker; he must be so happy. Hopefully, 4e Paladin powers will help turn the tide of battle.

      • *sigh*

        We are nearing the curtainfall and “THE END” for H.O.L.E here,no?

        What on earth am i to do with my life afterwards????

        • Pretty much the instant I get done drawing I am going to start writing a (humorous) fantasy novel about three siblings in the world of Corlianth, which is the more proper name for Lesser Earth. I will continue to write blogs and post videos and try to keep in touch with everyone here. I’d suggest waiting for the book as a potentially more attractive alternative to suicide. Potentially.

              • Of course you should practice. After all, you exhale before you put on the bag and switch on the gas, not to mention perhaps cuffing yourself so your body won’t disconnect the whole rig while it instinctively flails while you’re unconscious. and it would also ease the instinctive fear of dying, I presume.
                I’ll be sure to practice to perfection when the time comes.

            • Wouldn’t it be easier to just wander into your local equivalent of the Shades? I mean you live in a part of the world where just going into the wrong neighborhood wearing the wrong outfit is pretty much the same thing as suicide…A bit like Ankh-Morpork in that regard…

              • The whole idea is to die quickly and painlessly, not to mention with a bit of dignity.
                And apart from entering Arab-populated areas I don’t think there are any real “danger zones” like in the USA. Gang culture has yet to reach its zenith like in the good ol’ USA.

  5. In the future there will be only one person on that list. ME. *Evil grin since I can’t see the emoticons anymore, what’s up with those?*

  6. Thus begins a new era of giving Bunker shit, probably in the form of “let’s see if we can make him lose his new palidinly-ness”. If I remember right, they were always tricking Bunker into doing really not-lawful-good stuff and laughing at him as he squirmed when he found out what they did. Should be most entertaining!

    • Did your test involve taking down the “thumbs up/down” from comments? Because I can’t see those either now.
      And I kinda missed you, you don’t come here often enough.

      • And no “recent posts” on the right side of the page either. I’m guessing you’re going through the code and features one at a time, so I’ll just leave you to your business.

    • A lot of stuff got removed in the interest of fixing server issues. We might try slowly reimplementing things as soon as we’re certain all is well.

  7. Blackbeard? Just a common pirate who got famous. Nothing worse than most pirates and robbers, really, whicdh si to say, very bad but nothing special in the annals of humanity(which kinda speaks for itself where the human species is concerned, doesn’t it?).

    • Honestly, he wasn’t even that bad a person as a pirate. He did an appreciable amount of good (in economic terms) for the surrounding areas, and he was very difficult to kill. That’s about it. Sure he killed some dudes, but honestly, back in those days, who didn’t?

    • Yes, i remember reading about the run-up to this earlier.

      It does tickle my funny bone. 😀

    • There’s still some good in life, it seems.

      I’d give you a thumbs up, but obviously I can’t right now. 🙁

    • The main thing the bank failed to do was include an implicit EULA in all their outgoing correspondence.
      per example Opening or reading or both opening and reading this notice constitutes agreement with the following terms and conditions…

      On the picky side, the word "by" in the phrase "Hoist by one’s own petard," shows location, not means.