42 Responses to 661 – White Smoke Mountain • 30

  1. OMG I love it. About time you showed some skin for beefcake lovers. Let’s hope that there is no armor in this dungeon.

      • “Complicated” is the best sort.

        BTW, I’ve read somewhere, and I think it’s quite true, that bisexuals, despite probably being alot more common than gays or lesbians, don’t really get their fair share of the media’s attention. All you hear about is gays this and gays that.
        I know the term “gay” in common language covers just about every aspect of it, but you still mostly get complete homosexuals and their PoV is emphasized.

        Well, I say no more! Down with the evil homosexuals and their perverted ways(it’s so fun saying that)! Start showing more “complicated” people instead!

        • Actually there is more gays lesbians then bis. Not by much, though. About 4% of the population is gay or lesbian while about 2% is bi.

          • Just goes to show that most people are picky, one way or the other, while fairly few people are “complicatedly flexible” enough to be completely comfortable with 4 player co-ed naked Twister.

          • Really? I’d like to see the studies about that, because that’s kinda goes against logic(maybe just *my* logic?).

            I’d think there are more people who have some sort of attraction to both, going gradually towards absolute homosexuallity. Something like a down-curve towards absolute homo’ from absolute hetro’. More people being at the middle than at the far end makes more sense to me in this subject(of course with hetro’ having a large lead on both, the graph would be curved L shaped rather than U shaped).

            • It doesn’t seem to be that way, orald. Not that exactly anyway. Bisexuals seem to be predominantly gay in as much as their sexuality is concerned, but to connect with women on other levels… which often leads to sex. According to the most recent research, in any case.

              I agree that your notion does seem to make the greatest “logical” sense, but I don’t think who you’re attracted to and why an entirely logical issue. At least it isn’t from a individual perspective.

              • I think orald is right in who you are attracted to. But since there is such a stigma against gays most people suppress their bi tendencies and are just happy with what is socially acceptable. Being gay is *slightly* more socially acceptable than being bi because there is a support network to help you overcome the massive oppression of the rest of society. If you’re bi you don’t fit quite into the gay camp, but your quite definitely out of the socially acceptable camp so you get more pressure to conform.

                A lot of this isn’t even conscious. When a man looks at another man he has been trained by society to think platonic thoughts and when he looks at a woman he’s been trained to think about sex. It’s not just biology, it’s sociology too, “tv made me do it”

                So the few openly bi people are leaning pretty heavily towards gay, otherwise they wouldn’t bother trying to overcome their social training and risk persecution from the rest of society.

                • AFAK, exactly.

                  Just like some gay people try to “be normal” by going out with women, even marrying them. There are even some homosexuals that have children and all, until they just can’t put up with all this, and leave their spouse to another man.

                  For a lesbian exemple, I had a friend that professed to be bisexual. She stayed with a (pretty decent) guy for about 10 years, while having flings with women “because she needed it”. Finally, she left him, even thought she really liked him, because she realized that, try as she might, guys weren’t her thing.

          • Depends on the survey and how honest the answers are.

            There are a _lot_ of straight folk, especially women, who “in quiet, between friends, when I was younger” amd huge numbers where it’s a two drink minimum. Booze doesn’t make one fancy the other sex, it depresses certain social mentally constructed limitations. How many of them are willing to face it, especially if that means admitting such behaviour might be normal

            • Actually I got that data from my Psychology text book. So it is *probably* the most accurate info avaiable. I totally agree that the truthfulness of the answers is somewhat questionnable. The rest of you made good points.

              • @Pulsa: I’m sorry if I came off as trying to discredit you, I just wanted to know how accurate and reputable it was, there are so many claims out there, you know.

                @Christina: Had to google it(though it did sound vaguely familier), but yea, that’s what I was talking about in concept.

                @moginheden: That’s exactly what I mean. There’s just so much emphasis about supporting complete homosexuals that I feel left out.

                • Don’t worry Oald. My psych class has made me skeptical. I would of quenstioned any data you presented in the same fashion you questioned mine. I am not offended or anything.

    • Hello? Where did my comment go? Once again, a longer posting with links to other HOLE strips in it in it never shows up, and when I try to repost it I get the error message that I already said that. Kevin? What’s going on?

      Fortunately, I saved the text to a wordpad before I hit Send, but I’m not trying to repost it unless I know it’ll get through.

      • There is a plugin called Akismet that I use on this site to whisk away spam. It catches hundreds of spam messages every day. (No lie.) Unfortunately, the price is that it also occasionally grabs legitimate posts that look like spam to it. Multiple links are the surest way to get your post snatched. (And as far as I know Akismet has no way to tell where the links go.)

        I am VERY sorry, but I really couldn’t get by without Akismet or something like it. You can break your posts into smaller pieces or just refer to the comic you want without linking to it. I know it’s a pain and that it’s imperfect but it’s what I have right now. I’ll see if I can create a whitelist or something within the plugin, and I’ll let you know if I have any success.

    • (OK, let’s try this again, this time without the links to the comic strips in questions… sorry, you’ll have to search for them yourself. Blame the spam filter.)

      I argued long ago that Martin is bisexual. There was just… something about the way he reacted around Bunker. I think the most blatant hint was when Kevin posted that strip in which Martin sleeps with his first Fleece (the one in green) on the ship, and she said “Bunker’s silly morals are exactly why you love him.”
      (See strip #284 Weakness)

      Not to mention the way chaotic evil Martin always tries to ingratiate himself with lawful good Bunker. See for example: strip #484 (The Lizard King 11) You could chalk that up to a weird death wish on the warlock’s part or the idea that Martin likes a challenge when he screws with other people’s minds. But still.

      That, and Martin never stared at naked Violet’s boobs — despite them being such a big target, especially when you’re smaller than Violet and have to look up. 😉 Instead he told her to go and ravish Bunker (“Remember, No means Yes.”) in strip #577 (Gorch 04). Maybe he was trying aversion therapy on Bunker, so that Bunker would get nervous twitches whenever he saw a naked woman approaching? 🙄

      One thing that Bunker is, he is somewhat naive, but upright and honorable, thinking in straight lines. Maybe, in a weird way, Martin is trying to preserve in Bunker the innocence that Martin lost long ago and secretly yearns for, while at the same time the evil part of Martin’s psyche enjoys chipping away at Bunker’s innocence a piece at a time, to see how long it will take him to destroy it. Certainly, Martin often seems to lose all his usual guile when he is having a conversation with Bunker and starts to blab about things he shouldn’t have mentioned – like using Charm Person on other party members in strip #281.

      Martin likes his women docile and obedient and non-threatening, he was not at all amused when he got the new Slutty Spice killer!Fleece in 4E who uses her wit and sexuality as weapons. In addition to her actual bladed weapons.
      See strips #501 (You can’t go back 08) and #502 (You can’t go back 09)

      While Martin likes to seduce (meaning he has the power and control), he reacts grumpily when sexed-up women try to seduce him. And again, he has this weird, prudish “Cover yourself, woman!” and “I can’t believe you let him touch you… for clothes!” reaction when the pink Fleece turns up in a teddy and a chainmail bikini, as if he’s trying to preserve the idea of unsullied innocence.
      See strips #402 and #403

      He likes to pull people’s strings, but he doesn’t like to be on the receiving end of violence. Both times when Bunker got really angry at Martin’s manipulations and threatened to throw him off the ship, Martin folded up like a wet hanky.
      #282 (Procedural Notes)
      #329 (Clarifications)

      I used to think Martin was simply fascinated by Bunker, without any physical interest involved, but this latest strip speaks a different language.
      (Incidentally, if I remember correctly, Martin still doesn’t know that Bunker used to be a paladin, right? Bunker only told Freya and Violet. At least in-character. Not sure if the player overheard that around the table, but maybe the players of absent characters were in another room watching TV.)

      • Nice documentation. But I have to point out that you may be overthinking things. It could be as simple as Martin expects everyone but him to follow moral rules and he has a man crush on Bunker. Or it could be really complicated, even more so than you have made it. I’m just saying that the basis of the comic is humor some things were added for humor and not because its part of the character, though an action used for a joke could develop into an integral part of the character’s personality.

      • I tend to write a lot more about the character’s backgrounds and personalities than ever comes out onto the page to help me with my characterizations and to give the personalities some consistent direction. I am amazed at how accurate Christina’s observations are towards things that have only been hinted at over the years, even if it has been a subject of occasional conversation and speculation here in the comments.

        There are a few minor points of divergence Christina, but I’d say Bravo in general. I am flattered and impressed that you’d take the time and thought to even consider all of this. Thank you.

        • Thank you for being amused by my speculations. 😀 Martin is a character I love to hate.

    • Luckily, I was finished with my morning coffee when I read this comment – otherwise, I would be cleaning coffee off my work monitor right now.

    • Now that you mention it, those underpants are rather small for such a big boy as Bunker. 😉 Must be magically reshaping themselves.
      Wait… or are these women’s panties? 😐

      Bunker still hasn’t asked himself the main question: Is he now wearing Martin’s spare underwear? Or Fleece’s? 😉

      • So, how long until Bunker notices that he is wearing the girl panties and Freya is wearing the overall? 😉

  2. o_o Huh. I did not see that coming. And all this time I thought Martin was an uncomplicated bastard… Intelligent, but uncomplicated.