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	<title>Comments on: 633 – White Smoke Mountain • 02</title>
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	<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/</link>
	<description>...A Dungeons and Dragons Webcomic. Comic: Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Blog: Tuesday, Thursday</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Pettway</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25600</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Pettway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25600</guid>
		<description>Last!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last!</p>
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		<title>By: Cthulhu҉Hungers‮</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25562</link>
		<dc:creator>Cthulhu҉Hungers‮</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25562</guid>
		<description>Muahahahha.... nice to get the last word in. IMHO, if your players want to wreck the town... LET THEM. Truly there is nothing worse than seeing the results of your actions in all their horrible, detailed glory. But more importantly, it sounds like your players want to see the dark side. LET THEM. Sometimes it&#039;s fun: &quot;You have slain the entire city guard and taken a nap. It seems orcs have taken over the town and are eating the humans. Fried human is the new iron ration. A lich named Snickersnap has declared himself emperor. He&#039;s running a stand that sells semi-magic items made from reanimated bits of people (severed hand that holds stuff, anyone?). The bar is now run by a demon and it&#039;s full of dark elves. A kobold is out front selling +3 daggers with serated edges that glow in the presence of good aligned characters - for 100 gp! Tom Waits is playing!!! Some guy is selling a map to a town full of PALADINS!!!!!!!!&quot; In summary, if you have all evil characters, let &#039;em play an evil campaign. It&#039;s LOADS of fun, and a nice break from routine. As Kevin says - give your players what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muahahahha&#8230;. nice to get the last word in. IMHO, if your players want to wreck the town&#8230; LET THEM. Truly there is nothing worse than seeing the results of your actions in all their horrible, detailed glory. But more importantly, it sounds like your players want to see the dark side. LET THEM. Sometimes it&#8217;s fun: &#8220;You have slain the entire city guard and taken a nap. It seems orcs have taken over the town and are eating the humans. Fried human is the new iron ration. A lich named Snickersnap has declared himself emperor. He&#8217;s running a stand that sells semi-magic items made from reanimated bits of people (severed hand that holds stuff, anyone?). The bar is now run by a demon and it&#8217;s full of dark elves. A kobold is out front selling +3 daggers with serated edges that glow in the presence of good aligned characters &#8211; for 100 gp! Tom Waits is playing!!! Some guy is selling a map to a town full of PALADINS!!!!!!!!&#8221; In summary, if you have all evil characters, let &#8216;em play an evil campaign. It&#8217;s LOADS of fun, and a nice break from routine. As Kevin says &#8211; give your players what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25545</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25545</guid>
		<description>Allow everyone to play an eccentric character if they feel like it (and if they decline, you have to agree not to whine about it later). Otherwise, the player with the insane mage gets the spotlight all the time and becomes a diva.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow everyone to play an eccentric character if they feel like it (and if they decline, you have to agree not to whine about it later). Otherwise, the player with the insane mage gets the spotlight all the time and becomes a diva.</p>
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		<title>By: Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25544</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25544</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Stat balance isn’t the most important thing in the world, but player activity, interest and relevance balance is. &lt;/i&gt;

True, and very important. Unfortunately, it&#039;s a point that many game developers and a lot of players still do not seem to have grasped, or we wouldn&#039;t have so many arguments about &quot;power balance&quot; and endless attempts to fiddle with and fine-tune character classes (in games that use classes) to make them more &quot;fairly balanced&quot;. It&#039;s all about the question, Do all players have the chance to participate meaningfully and get screen time? Not necessarily equal screentime, but as much as they wish (some players are more laid-back and don&#039;t actually want so much screen time), unless, in the case of attention-whores, this unfairly cuts into everyone else&#039;s screen time. And then there are the players who just aren&#039;t motivated to do anything, anyway; trying to force roleplaying screen time on them is a useless endeavor. They just want to hack orcs 24/7 or sit back and be passively entertained .

Unfortunately, in games like Shadowrun and D&amp;D the rules talk mostly about team combat and reaching quest goals, not about storytelling, and consequently adventures are often played in a way that punishes &quot;weaker&quot; characters who cannot keep up because they do not have enough experience/skill points or the wrong kind of skill set. But if the character cannot contribute to the team goal, the player starts to feel superfluous and frustrated. 

Other games, like Ars Magica, GURPS Discworld, GURPS Celtic Myth and Call of Cthulhu demonstrate that you &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; make a group made up of character of different power levels work, and make the game enjoyable.

Of course, this depends on having a game master who does not play favorites, and having players who do not use their more powerful characters to metaphorically or literally push the &quot;weaker&quot; characters out of the story. &quot;You&#039;re useless, so we make you stay in this locked room until we come back. It&#039;s for your own best.&quot;

If the gamemaster plays favorites, skill and power level or story relevance doesn&#039;t matter anymore anyway, as the favored character becomes a Mary Sue that can accomplish anything anyway... the universe reshapes itself to suit her/him.

I was once a great proponent of &quot;game fairness&quot; which meant (if i.e. you are playing GURPS or similar point-based systems) making sure that everyone gets the same number of starting points. But then I met a gamemaster who used this &quot;point fairness doctrine&quot; like a straight jacket, instead of a rough guideline to make sure different character concepts do not get totally out of hand. She&#039;s rather kill a character concept dead than grant a few more points on credit. (In a Changeling: the Dreaming game!) 

She&#039;d punish a more active character, i.e. an aging knight geared towards melee combat and diplomacy, claiming he was &quot;dominating&quot; the story, at the same time ignoring all attempts by the player to integrate the more physically powerful greyhaired character with the group of fresh-faced young adventurers, for example by making the knight the self-appointed bodyguard of the witch child character. Mind you, this was the old World of Darkness 1.0 Changeling, where starting characters needed to pick an age bracket (child, teenager or adult) but had the same starting points... in fact, child characters got more points in the magic mystic changeling powers while older characters had on the whole more disadvantages, and everyone got the same number of skill points and attribute points. When &#039;ported into GURPS rules, this imbalance became a lot more visible. But instead of solving it via storytelling, the group tried to solve it via rules mechanics. Which blew up the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Stat balance isn’t the most important thing in the world, but player activity, interest and relevance balance is. </i></p>
<p>True, and very important. Unfortunately, it&#8217;s a point that many game developers and a lot of players still do not seem to have grasped, or we wouldn&#8217;t have so many arguments about &#8220;power balance&#8221; and endless attempts to fiddle with and fine-tune character classes (in games that use classes) to make them more &#8220;fairly balanced&#8221;. It&#8217;s all about the question, Do all players have the chance to participate meaningfully and get screen time? Not necessarily equal screentime, but as much as they wish (some players are more laid-back and don&#8217;t actually want so much screen time), unless, in the case of attention-whores, this unfairly cuts into everyone else&#8217;s screen time. And then there are the players who just aren&#8217;t motivated to do anything, anyway; trying to force roleplaying screen time on them is a useless endeavor. They just want to hack orcs 24/7 or sit back and be passively entertained .</p>
<p>Unfortunately, in games like Shadowrun and D&amp;D the rules talk mostly about team combat and reaching quest goals, not about storytelling, and consequently adventures are often played in a way that punishes &#8220;weaker&#8221; characters who cannot keep up because they do not have enough experience/skill points or the wrong kind of skill set. But if the character cannot contribute to the team goal, the player starts to feel superfluous and frustrated. </p>
<p>Other games, like Ars Magica, GURPS Discworld, GURPS Celtic Myth and Call of Cthulhu demonstrate that you <i>can</i> make a group made up of character of different power levels work, and make the game enjoyable.</p>
<p>Of course, this depends on having a game master who does not play favorites, and having players who do not use their more powerful characters to metaphorically or literally push the &#8220;weaker&#8221; characters out of the story. &#8220;You&#8217;re useless, so we make you stay in this locked room until we come back. It&#8217;s for your own best.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the gamemaster plays favorites, skill and power level or story relevance doesn&#8217;t matter anymore anyway, as the favored character becomes a Mary Sue that can accomplish anything anyway&#8230; the universe reshapes itself to suit her/him.</p>
<p>I was once a great proponent of &#8220;game fairness&#8221; which meant (if i.e. you are playing GURPS or similar point-based systems) making sure that everyone gets the same number of starting points. But then I met a gamemaster who used this &#8220;point fairness doctrine&#8221; like a straight jacket, instead of a rough guideline to make sure different character concepts do not get totally out of hand. She&#8217;s rather kill a character concept dead than grant a few more points on credit. (In a Changeling: the Dreaming game!) </p>
<p>She&#8217;d punish a more active character, i.e. an aging knight geared towards melee combat and diplomacy, claiming he was &#8220;dominating&#8221; the story, at the same time ignoring all attempts by the player to integrate the more physically powerful greyhaired character with the group of fresh-faced young adventurers, for example by making the knight the self-appointed bodyguard of the witch child character. Mind you, this was the old World of Darkness 1.0 Changeling, where starting characters needed to pick an age bracket (child, teenager or adult) but had the same starting points&#8230; in fact, child characters got more points in the magic mystic changeling powers while older characters had on the whole more disadvantages, and everyone got the same number of skill points and attribute points. When &#8216;ported into GURPS rules, this imbalance became a lot more visible. But instead of solving it via storytelling, the group tried to solve it via rules mechanics. Which blew up the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Pettway</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25535</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Pettway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25535</guid>
		<description>Dear DM will answer your question… you poor, poor bastard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear DM will answer your question… you poor, poor bastard.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25534</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25534</guid>
		<description>In Shadowrun there is a real problem with &#039;disposable characters&#039;.  Because a lot of Shadowruns are based on a random team of people coming together to do a run, there isn&#039;t the same continuity for people to get together and stay together.

There is an edges and flaws system, where one of the flaws which is worth quite a few points is called &quot;Borrowed time&quot;, and literally means that your character is only going to live for a few months for whatever reason.

In my opinion, flawed but brillliant characters only really work if you are building scenarios of a campaign around the idea.  - also, make sure that the other players are aware that the character isn&#039;t all brilliant, and that the player playing the cursed character is able to handle it.

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Shadowrun there is a real problem with &#8216;disposable characters&#8217;.  Because a lot of Shadowruns are based on a random team of people coming together to do a run, there isn&#8217;t the same continuity for people to get together and stay together.</p>
<p>There is an edges and flaws system, where one of the flaws which is worth quite a few points is called &#8220;Borrowed time&#8221;, and literally means that your character is only going to live for a few months for whatever reason.</p>
<p>In my opinion, flawed but brillliant characters only really work if you are building scenarios of a campaign around the idea.  &#8211; also, make sure that the other players are aware that the character isn&#8217;t all brilliant, and that the player playing the cursed character is able to handle it.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25529</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25529</guid>
		<description>Dear DM,

how can I, as a DM/Storyteller, encourage more women to participate in roleplaying, when all the female roleplayers in the vicinity are either ex-girlfriends, or women my girlfriend would like to strangle bare-handedly, or both?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear DM,</p>
<p>how can I, as a DM/Storyteller, encourage more women to participate in roleplaying, when all the female roleplayers in the vicinity are either ex-girlfriends, or women my girlfriend would like to strangle bare-handedly, or both?</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous coward</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25528</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25528</guid>
		<description>My general advice: Stat balance isn&#039;t the most important thing in the world, but player activity, interest and relevance balance is.  If you make the other players feel superfluous to what&#039;s going on by having everything be defined by if one character remembered their pills in the morning then they will probably be annoyed by that unless they&#039;re drunk enough to just be sitting back and watching the important player and GM telling how the story goes like it&#039;s TV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My general advice: Stat balance isn&#8217;t the most important thing in the world, but player activity, interest and relevance balance is.  If you make the other players feel superfluous to what&#8217;s going on by having everything be defined by if one character remembered their pills in the morning then they will probably be annoyed by that unless they&#8217;re drunk enough to just be sitting back and watching the important player and GM telling how the story goes like it&#8217;s TV.</p>
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		<title>By: Moginheden</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25525</link>
		<dc:creator>Moginheden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25525</guid>
		<description>You know now that I&#039;ve written that, I think it might be an awesome campaign idea... 

Start new characters at level 4 or so, have the DM throw some level 10 monsters them, when the players get eaten and complain that the campaign is too hard tell them that was just the intro and have their patron resurrect them like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know now that I&#8217;ve written that, I think it might be an awesome campaign idea&#8230; </p>
<p>Start new characters at level 4 or so, have the DM throw some level 10 monsters them, when the players get eaten and complain that the campaign is too hard tell them that was just the intro and have their patron resurrect them like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Moginheden</title>
		<link>http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/2010/03/633-%e2%80%93-white-smoke-mountain-%e2%80%a2-02/comment-page-1/#comment-25524</link>
		<dc:creator>Moginheden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heroesoflesserearth.com/?p=4508#comment-25524</guid>
		<description>I think a combination of the reincarnation and the resurrection rules would apply here.  Roll 4d6 to see what you brought back, (roll a 1 for an elf part, 2 for a goblin part, etc. each die is assigned to a section of the resurrected monstrosity so you might end up with a half-elf, quarter troll, quarter wolf character depending on die rolls.)  The percent of the resulting thing that is capable of your original class is the percent of your levels you get to keep, but you maintain full memory of your life, (and will of course be mentally scarred for life along with your new patchwork form.)

Oh and a -5 or more charisma penalty wouldn&#039;t be too out there either...  but on the up side you might end up like Morty with troll regen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a combination of the reincarnation and the resurrection rules would apply here.  Roll 4d6 to see what you brought back, (roll a 1 for an elf part, 2 for a goblin part, etc. each die is assigned to a section of the resurrected monstrosity so you might end up with a half-elf, quarter troll, quarter wolf character depending on die rolls.)  The percent of the resulting thing that is capable of your original class is the percent of your levels you get to keep, but you maintain full memory of your life, (and will of course be mentally scarred for life along with your new patchwork form.)</p>
<p>Oh and a -5 or more charisma penalty wouldn&#8217;t be too out there either&#8230;  but on the up side you might end up like Morty with troll regen!</p>
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